Micah's Restless Helix

"So that's what I'm pushing for, the fact that you can be outspoken about your beliefs and choose to be a learner again, starting from the beginning, every time you want to achieve something." - Micah.

Micah is a passionate full-stack engineer, die-hard foodie and diversity advocate. She is only learning what the word "rest" is, plus she's a force to be reckoned with in the tech industry. Listen in our conversation about the contrast in how I describe her versus her take, our similarities, views about women in tech and beyond, mentorship and of course, food!
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This episode's show notes and transcript: https://www.humanthesaurus.co/episodes/micahs-restless-helix

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Transcript

Wish 00:00:02
Hello, dear humanity. Welcome to Human Thesaurus podcast. I'm your host-slash-benevolent Wish Ronquillo Peacocke. Wish 00:00:02
Micah considers the childhood memory of opening her lunch box to find Filipino fare such as adobo and Tortang Talong with rice while her Australian classmates snacked on their fruit roll ups to have set her up for three things in life: One is embracing the unconventional, and then advocating for diversity, and being a diehard foodie. She left a role in consulting after University to pursue her true passion, which is full stack engineering with a focus on cybersecurity and serverless applications. Micah currently lives in Sydney and I miss her and she spends her time developing apps, mentoring in tech, and occasionally gardening and being just fabulous all the time. I met her through my former colleague, which is her partner. We worked together back in Australia when I was working at the last job that I had, and I always hear about her being brilliant, and when we met, we just clicked. And I love her ever since. My synonyms for Micah are Swan as a noun, withstanding as a verb, and piquant as an adjective. So let's welcome Micah Daproza!

Micah 
Hey my name is Micah same as the words cinnamon as a noun, spiralling as a verb, and lofty as an adjective. I like the word serendipity, and I dislike the word spontaneity. 

Wish 00:02:00
Love. Thank you so much for that. Yes. I'm so excited to have you as a guest because we have a lot to talk about. But first, what have you been up to lately? Because I know you just left your job. What's up with that? 

Micah 00:02:18
Yeah. So where I'm at right now is what I call the gap year. 

Wish 00:02:23
Nice. 

Micah 00:02:24
So I left my job a little bit to me unexpectedly, but it felt like the right thing to do. But it basically meant I have no safety net whatsoever and I didn't really expect to start the year like this, to be honest. But what I've been doing is just a lot of breaks and self reflection in the meantime. 

Wish 00:02:44
So far, what are you reflecting on? Or have you come to any conclusions or any work in progress train of thought? 

Micah 00:02:55
Yeah, it's been a pretty wild ride. Something that's been affecting me lately is my inability to say no. And I feel like it's so not taught. I mean, it's either in childhood you're taught to say no or you're not, and I'm in very much the latter. And I feel like if something comes along, I have to say yes to it. I feel like I need to. And that's sort of affected me throughout my life because there's always some expectation, whether it's real or imagined, that I'm trying to live up to. And yeah, it's very strange because once it clicks when you're older, you're like, what the hell have I been doing all this time? 

Wish 00:03:43
Right. So what are you doing to kind of address that to make you feel a little bit more comfortable in terms of addressing that or improving on all of these saying yes or no to people? Is it about approval? Is it about you're so tender hearted that you can't really say no. What are your views right now so far? Because it looks like it's a work in progress. 

Micah 00:04:16
Well, I think I wish I could say it's because I'm so generous and it's coming from deeply in my heart, but part of it is just. It is expectation. I mean, I'm not going to lie, there's a stereotype on women who want to achieve and who are ambitious that they have to do everything. You hear the phrase all the time of oh, she can do it all. And what does that actually mean? It just means that she's not allowed to show any flaw. And so I think I took that on because if you're in a harsh world, right, and you put on your armour, you put on some thicker skin and then you tell yourself, hey, you can do anything. But that sort of reflects as well on how you treat yourself. So what I'm doing to address that now is it's weird to say, but I'm forcing myself to rest. I've been away in the Gold Coast for about a week and the whole thing is just like. It's like lying down on the softest bed, but you're used to the ground, it's just weird for your back, it's just weird for your mind to settle. But I'm telling myself, hey, you need to learn how to take a break and if it's something that I didn't already know before, it's something I kind of have to do now before burning out, you know what I mean? Have you ever felt that before? Is it just me or is it hard to relax? 

Wish 00:05:40
No, absolutely. I've been in that position quite some time ago and it's really a journey. And just to acknowledge I'm really proud of you because you've always been reflective and mindful, such as I am too, but I've been there. You're not alone, there are lots of people who are like that and yes, there are pressure, especially for women in tech, to be flawless, to be great, to be strong, to be perfect, because we're up against all these men who may need to work lesser than us, who doesn't need to prove themselves as much as us. But it's really good to know and to understand at some point when to walk away. And yes, I've always had that restless soul, so it's really hard to stop that. But eventually in life, when you begin to realise how much you're missing on the other half of your life, which needs to relax, then you can find that balance. It's not easy, but you're going to get there. But it's just good that you're on that step, that you're aware of it now, so that's where you could blossom from there. And don't be hard on yourself as well. To pressure. I think the biggest factor for this is pressure, like self pressure. And then we forget to be kinder to ourselves. You know, I think like what you're saying, you can't say no to people. It's generosity towards other people because you need to please and you need to kind of like have your branding out there that you can do everything. But at the end of the day, for example, for this podcast, I just wanted to really highlight how beautiful words are. But at the same time, it's like being human at the same time. So that's why my descriptions of people really matter, because those words really matter. They feel better about that. 

Micah 00:07:54
Yeah. Okay. I want to unpack that because I feel like withstanding is like a very appropriate choice for me for a verb. It's not a common one, but I feel like it is appropriate. What was your thinking behind that? 

Wish 00:08:10
Yeah, I've seen you grow in the past. How many years do we know each other now since I think 2017/2018. So even with that short amount of time that we know each other, that we hang out, we always have this beautiful conversation over beautiful cocktails and wines. And I think your train of thought, I'm just like waiting for you to keep on blossoming because I know and I always trust that you can figure it out. And it's really more of that. Like I don't need to tell you what to do because every time we see each other, you always have this. You have this propensity to really figure it out. Like what you're going to do, it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, but you're always taking some action. You just don't slump in there and just freeze there and die in there. You keep on moving. And that's what I love about the people around me who are growing, who are constantly growing. So you I could see because you've been through a lot, you have a very interesting childhood. Very interesting, like teenage life up to now. You're an adult and you always have these interesting self reflections and adventures and challenges and issues. So withstanding, for me, is really so appropriate for you because I was thinking about this. I always think it through very deeply per guest It's like, how do I describe you? But you do withstand everything that you are going through, and you have to acknowledge that too. You have to take credit and you have to own that, don't you think? 

Micah 00:10:10
You know what? I'm going to do something I normally never do. And yes, I'm going to accept that. I think I have dealt with a lot. And I think it's funny actually, because by contrast, my word for myself, my verb is spiralling. And it's interesting to see what other people see of me during the same period of time. I just feel like I'm coming apart. And I'm glad you think it's blossoming. And I think normally when we're in the eye of the storm, right, we never think that we're the ones in control when actually sometimes even allowing things to go out of control a little bit is an action and it's letting things run its course, which I think I'm doing now. I feel like I'm playing a waiting game, and I think you can relate to that. When you are in a similar position that you're waiting for the next thing, you're waiting. And we're very intuitive, too. I think we share that, you and I, and we would never go jump into something that we're not 100% going to put our heart into. 

Wish 00:11:14
Absolutely. 

Micah 00:11:14
So that's what I feel like. I'm waiting for that thing. I'm waiting for that feeling that's telling me like, hey, go there and whether or not it's going to be like, hey, move to Timbuktu or Nepal, drag Yan with me, my partner with me to Nepal. If that's what's going to be. I feel like I'm going to do it. At least I'm in that mind space now where I'm just letting fate. I don't know if you believe in fate, but I'm just letting fate run its course. 

Wish 00:11:43
Yeah. Fate is there. I always believe that because once I've learned that plans are really made to be broken and I have to let go of a lot of my OCD tendencies, it really opened a lot of the world for me in a different way, but beautiful that way. Yeah. So it's great because I actually chuckled when you say spiralling earlier, I was like, oh, this is so you. But I think also, at the same time, I'm not even going to take that as you thinking about yourself, like, negatively. I think we also thrive in chaos. So I think these little dramas is our motivation as well to grow. Am I wrong here? I don't think so, no. 

Micah 00:12:44
We definitely take it in stride, look, i mean, from the eyes of everyone: We're not good with chaos because we have our ways of sort of trying to take control. And some might see that as, oh, they don't like chaos at all. Like they want everything in order. But for us, putting things in order is kind of our thing. It's our jam. Right. So if things are out of control a little bit, yeah, maybe. It looks like we hate it at the time, but the overcoming of it is something so beautiful. It's like, who are we going to become next? I think that's the only way for us to get to that next stage in life. Some people, I don't know, I mean, I've spoken to them and they always want to make things look like it's choreographed. Like, oh, yes, we got married, we talked about this, and then we're going to have kids and the chaos isn't there. I feel like, honestly, as much as I hate to admit it, I can't live without it. I feel like I need a little bit of drama in my life. I was watching Euphoria recently. I talked about it with a dear friend of mine as well. And it's one of those things where you watch it and it triggers you, but you can't stop watching it because you can relate to everyone there, even if it's just crazy. It doesn't make sense. Your experiences weren't the same, but the feeling was certainly the same. 

Wish 00:14:05
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like, little drama in our lives is a good motivation and it's a good drive, I think. But it's completely different because I think at the moment, the woke community is putting drama and victimhood as one and the same, and they're not. So there's just people who are so dramatic because they're acting like victims all the time. Like, oh, woe is me all the time. So it's an excuse for you to be lazy not to do anything about whatever situation or jam you're in. So that's mostly victimhood. But the drama that we have is really like letting life happen because a lot of it is beyond our control. And then when it happens, whether it explodes, implode, or just become peaceful or whatever, we deal with it. So I think that's a good point to put in there. So, yeah, I do get you that sometimes we do need a little bit drama in our lives and we can't walk away from it because I think, like what you said earlier, that we always wait and wanted to know what's next, like, what's going to come out of that. It's that curiosity. 

Micah 00:15:24
Yeah, exactly. And I think victim I agree with you on that. Wokeness is indulgent. I feel like indulging in being a victim, whereas you and I, we hate like, that is a foreign word to us. I don't think any of us would have chosen that word for ourselves because of what it implies. Like, it implies that you have no power. Well, we know we have power. And it's like if you're a victim, then it's like a drug you can't get out of being a victim. But the only vice I have, at least, is drinking very good bourbon right now. And so I'm not going to allow myself to have that self pity spiral as well. 

Wish 00:16:11
Yeah. And it's also okay, so that's another part of just going with the notions of whatever you're going through is to also acknowledge you can just break down and cry and you can spiral a little bit. You can! You should allow yourself to have that time of weakness, because if not, then that's when the burnout and resentment will come. And we don't want that in our lives. So, yes, sometimes all of a sudden I just burst out by crying. It's like even PMSing, everything is good. But I just wanted a good cry, and I do. So it's just loving yourself, loving every single side of yourself, and accepting that that's part of you. Speaking of, like, careers for women in tech and you're very active as a woman in tech are we progressing in what direction? 

Micah 00:17:23
Honestly, that's a very good question because being on the job market right now, I'm like doubly discerning on whether or not a company is virtue signalling or whether or not they actually mean it. And I do believe a lot of the new start, it's an exciting time because a lot of the new startups do value having female input at the very top. And it's not a question anymore of like, we have one token female. It's actually becoming a larger demographic among the C suite or among the founding members. And I think in that way, at least in Sydney, in the Sydney tech scene, it is progressing really well. We think we're addressing real problems. But when it comes to older companies enterprises, I'm actually not sure. I've been sort of out of touch from that scene for a while, and I think with the reason that's good because I came from one of those big four. 

Wish 00:18:20
Right. 

Micah 00:18:21
So I'm just thinking, like, I don't know whether or not I should check in on them, because a lot of values that they held when I was still there are not values I share about diversity, about women, about even the tech part of women in tech. How far do we allow women to take the concept and the POC and run with it as opposed to men? I don't see a lot of women in R&D. I don't see a lot of women taking on riskier aspects of technology like ML (Machine Learning) or AI. It's still mostly guys. 

Wish 00:19:00
Yeah. Because I suppose that's another language that we have to kind of change as well. It's just that because we're not allowed to. We're not allowed to be open to it because we can do it. We can do all of these things. It's just we're stopped, we're nipped in the bud when we're blossoming. So that's why I really have this big battle with me right now, because there are lots of opportunities still for me to solve tech problems in the world. I thrive in that space, but I don't have the heart to go back to tech. I really just don't. I'm so good at it, but I don't have the heart to go back with what happened. It's not like I'm trying to relive the past or traumatised about the past. It's just that I can't wrap my head around that struggle anymore. I didn't want that anymore. Like, fine before I had an uphill battle to represent women in tech, but I think I've had enough. 

Micah 00:20:16
That's so sad. 

Wish 00:20:17
It is sad, but at the same time, yeah, I just can't bring or convince myself to go back. But I am always rooting for people like you, who I know who will still have a very bright future in tech and are able to really execute on that and continue the dreams that I always have for more women in tech who are not politicised, were not shut down because they're great. They're threatening the man's world. So keep on going. It's just not really. I don't know what happened to me. I'm still assessing that. I'm still assessing that. I just can't bring myself to go back. 

Micah 00:21:09
Do you think that if you had the opportunity to work with all females or majority of females, would that actually help? Because I actually see a lot of startups now that are led by and piloted by women. 

Wish 00:21:25
It's not about even the gender for me at all. It's about the psyche of the entire industry. I love seeing young people who are still brave to fight for what they know and what they wanted to change about the world and what problems they want to solve. I support that. But for me, it's even beyond gender. It's not the gender, it's the industry. The lying part of the tech industry is the one that I can't live with anymore. Like, I'm so over those bullshit because it's threatening the future of how responsible AI is going to be in the future and all of these things. So if I'm going back to tech, it's going to be probably an NGO, probably going to be where we can either, like you're in the field of cybersecurity, it's like, how do we make sure that the future of all of these technologies, especially quantum computing, is going to be responsible, that we're going to be responsible in building it and not use it in very evil ways because it's really a threat in the future. That's going to be the future threats. So if I'm going to be in an NGO trying to audit all of these things, then I would, because I could see that it's not anticommercialism, but it's really more of it's doing something good for tech. I'm just so through the politics of tech, especially mansplainers out there who are cutting people off because they feel threatened by them. So I think that's my biggest issue. It's not really the gender at all. 

Micah 00:23:18
Yeah, I totally get what you're saying about people in tech. Well, the mindset of people in tech sometimes is like turning a blind eye to things that we definitely need to address. And ethics is at the very top of it. And obviously, like, society is still catching up and don't have a full understanding of what tech can actually achieve except the people actually in it. And they're not setting any rules. They're going all out there. It's like Nobel and Dynamite. It's the same idea where we don't know what we're holding in our hands and we're not setting any boundaries for future generations and we're just ignoring it for money, which is ethics. How do we bring it back? That's always the question. 

Wish 00:24:09
Yeah. Because at the moment, I think a lot of startups are thinking, oh, let's put a Chief Happiness Officer, let's do more social media in comms, and you have to focus a little bit more on your ethics. So I think people in culture is really important. It's beyond HR. HR, sorry, I think I'm going to get a lot of flack on this, but not the gossipy type of human resources. It's really more of really people in culture. How you're going to build your startup? How are you going to build your tech in your startup and your community in your startup with that mindset that you have to protect something, you have to protect a value or an ethical way to do something. And you can commercialise on this? Absolutely. It's just that I think sometimes people or startups would have this very idealistic type, right? We have to be ethical and all of that. And then you're desperate for money. And then there's this investor, not completely ethical. They do everything for the money and you have to keep up with the milestones. Then you get eaten up by the system. It's like, how do we solve that? 

Micah 00:25:30
I think we're touching on really big societal problems here. Because if you look at how dire it is in every other industry as well, or even every social aspect, like where people live to start with that very basic thing, it's such a no brainer. Some of these solutions to help and improve people's lives, but it's just not being done. And you're wondering why it's not done. It's like red tape. Bureaucracy everywhere. 

Wish 00:26:00
Yes, politics, politics ruin everything. So I'm going to put that on a T shirt or something. 

Micah 00:26:14
I would actually buy that shirt. 

Wish 00:26:16
Okay, let me write that down right now. 

Micah 00:26:19
Yeah. After this podcast, we're not going to be hired by any tech company. 

Wish 00:26:24
No. 

Micah 00:26:25
Might as well start a Tshirt business. 

Wish 00:26:27
No, that's a different way we could get hired because you can kind of be the opposite of what a culture is doing in a company. So that's why I was very critical as well about there are different companies who are also hiring people in culture. Managers or directors, what have you. So I was just looking at job descriptions just for it's like, okay, what's the trend for this? Is this genuine? What are they looking for? And some of them are still not getting it. So you're like, okay, so this is what they think about it like putting up events to keep the morale high. It's just like very superficial. So you're like, okay, if I'm going to take a course on this, how deep would this institution go on understanding how to manage people and culture, which is, again, a position that's a trend. I really just don't know. So that's why all of these thoughts are always like in my head. And it makes me more convinced to not come back to tech. 

Micah 00:27:48
Unfortunately, I don't know exactly where. I'm pretty sure every not every, but certainly some founders have an intention to do the right thing and some of their startups start off right. I'm not going to speak to any of the female founders like Theranos. I'm not sure of their intentions, but I'm definitely sure that some startups had a good intention starting out. And I don't know, is it corruption? Do you think that somewhere along the line the money just got in the way? Or is it just that they allowed their voice to get swallowed by stakeholders and even if they did want to say something, they were legally bound? Where along the pathway on the VC path? Do you think things go wrong? 

Wish 00:28:33
Yeah, it's both ways. That's another thing. At the end of the day, to be honest with you, I really miss being a VC because you see different facets. But it goes both ways sometimes corruption or really like hunger for power. So when a founder is ambitious and has a low EQ, this is scientific, has a low EQ, highly genius, high IQ, low EQ all the more. And then when they get money, attention and power, everything gets destroyed, even though they were this sweet, good-intentioned person when they started their business or their idea. And then there's another one where sometimes you feel like you owe the investors a lot from the opportunity and the money that they've given you. So all you can do is say yes. What your issue is, you can't say no. So that's another thing, especially the first time founders, they're like, oh, I should say yes all the time, probably. I can't do this second guessing themselves. So those ones would need proper mentorship to be empowered to go towards the right direction and not lose what their intent from the beginning. So it's not simple, it's highly complex. It's really how you surround yourself with the right mentorship, the right investors around you. So a lot of people are very desperate for money to keep their businesses going. It's hard. It's really hard to not suck it up sometimes, but I always think at the end of the day, why would you compromise ethics? You shouldn't. Again, it's easier said than done. But I've always walked away from a situation or a business when it already compromises my ethics because I only have one name and let alone we're Filipinos, we're not really on top of the food chain when it comes to culture. So this is the only thing that I could be proud of, being a Filipino- feisty Filipino chick, to be on tech or to be in anywhere else to keep my ethics straight, because this is how I was raised and this is my branding. 

Micah 00:31:11
Yeah, I find that interesting that you brought up culture. My parents have been trying to get me to watch this film about. I think it was Indian scientist who helped get some rocket to Mars. And I forgot the name of the film, but it reminded me very much of Hidden Figures. And all these women, basically women of colour specifically, whose contributions to tech or science went completely overlooked. I mean, even versus women, CIS, white women or men, of course, just completely overlooked until many years later. And it's very hard to find mentorship. And we're speaking of mentors earlier that you need the right one, but finding a mentor who would suit that specific? I'm a woman in tech and I'm a woman of colour as well. And culture is entwined with what I do. How do I find a mentor that can empathise with that? It's even more dime a dozen than finding a good mentor with ethics. 

Wish 00:32:17
That's right. So that's why that's another thing. You really just have to make an effort to really put yourself out there. So that's what I've done ever since I started working 21 years ago. Now I really just network put myself out there. I was really shy, but I always wanted to surround myself with more experienced people around me. And I just approached them and ask them questions and then treat them for coffee and it starts from there. Those relationships. Yeah. So that's part of it. You really have to put yourself out there. It takes some kind of work to find those mentors, and some of them are not even face to face. They're just virtual. I've got this. Even one gardener. Yeah. One farmer from a very remote area in United Kingdom. He's my mentor throughout the years and he's a farmer. He does not have anything to do with tech, but he teaches me how to be grounded, how to keep on going. And because he's so appreciative of my little efforts that I do that he knows. So he's like a father to me. His name is Grant, and throughout the years he just appears when I'm down or I'm doubting myself and give me that encouragement, how much he believes me. And then he tells me about his garden and all of these. It's very simple, but it's just so effective that you can cross paths with these beautiful people who can teach you more about life. And you're also being a mentor. So what are your, like, big picture or big kind of, let's say, aspirations on how you present yourself being a mentor. What do you offer? 

Micah 00:34:22
I think what I offer is a person who, throughout their career, has spoken their mind and at the same time strive for technical excellence. I mean, I'm not obviously at that point where I'm satisfied with myself and I'm in no means just me, but it's just something I always aspire to that you can't just be all talk that you create all the time. You learn as well, and you're humble with experiences that help you to become more technical and understand technology better, rather than just purely evangelising. And I think that's a very important combination that I'm missing, at least in some of the mentors I've seen, where you can't talk to them about the frustrations of code. Like code simply doesn't achieve what we wanted to achieve. Right just like with any medium, like, if you're an artist, there's nothing that's been invented that can capture what visionaries really want to happen. And code is limiting, just like paint is limiting or language. We always want to do more than we can. And I think that that's important for women in tech is that they can do that, they can achieve that. I think some of them stop with specialty in something that they know very well and they don't want to do or jump into anything cutting edge because it's familiar. Right. If they've become very good at something, they're established and they're safe, but then if they want to admit, hey, I want to be in this cutting edge side of whatever technology they're putting themselves again in a sort of vulnerable position, which I think is very much tied into how women are treated in the industry. So that's what I'm pushing for, the fact that you can be outspoken about your beliefs and you can choose to be a learner again, starting from the beginning, every time you want to achieve something. I'm hoping that this is the message that comes across. But I'm hoping if someone sees me learning as well, and I do know a thing or two about code, but if they see me learning something new, that would inspire them as well. 

Wish 00:36:37
Absolutely. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And whoever you're mentoring will be so lucky to have you. Absolutely. I think good mentors are constantly learning, too, so I think that's way more. If your mentor is just sitting there on their laurels of their previous successes, then run away. 

Micah 00:37:00
Run away. 

Wish 00:37:04
Yeah, totally. So what's next for you? Are you still going to take a break and what will be the next few steps that you're kind of planning or wanted to achieve or anything? 

Micah 00:37:19
Yeah. So I think I'm never going to be comfortable with being comfortable. So I'm looking for a role that will challenge me. And I've recently been promoted before I left the company that I was at last, I've been a promoter to senior developer. So my next goal is obviously to explore the crossroads of do I become more people-focused and be a manager, or do I become more technically focused and be a tech lead? That's the decision I'm struggling with at the moment because it depends. That question will define where I go next. What growth will I have in the next company I have to sort of Hone in on? What do I want to do in the next two years? And I'm pretty sure I can get to a manager or lead role in two years if I really push myself. It's one of those things that you just know you can do it because you've done some impossible stuff before and you can replicate that. Right. So that's the next thing. But I'm faced with this question now of technical or people and yeah, I still don't have the answer for that. And I'm interviewing at a few places at the moment, but the question still remains, like, if I do get offers back, which one? What do I choose? What path will I take? 

Wish 00:38:38
Singapore is open for you, too, by the way. 

Micah 00:38:41
Then maybe I should have changed my answer and said, I'm going to take a break and the Port is open to Singapore. 

Wish 00:38:47
It's open now. 

Micah 00:38:50
Yeah, sure. 

Wish 00:38:52
Wow. Well, good luck with that. And I'm sure you will figure it out. As usual, I always trust that. And on the fun side, being a foodie yourself, what was the best food that you ever had that you discovered last year? 

Micah 00:39:12
Oh, you know, it's funny because I have a friend. I'm very close to that. I've recently it's not for me, really. But I've introduced him to Paté, and I've got him really into Paté. And by extension, I have now rediscovered my love for Paté, which is not a surprise because I'm a Filipina. And processed meat is in my vein like Spam, hot dogs. Paté is just elevated. Everyone's going to hate me to say this. It's just elevated Spam. I've been taking him to Chop House. I've been taking him to a lot of French restaurants. I love seeing him sort of go down that route. I don't know what it's doing to our digestive system. Yeah, exactly. And I think the fact that it's so high cholesterol, it's definitely ensuring that one time is going to be very short. 

Wish 00:40:10
Wow. What type of paté do you really like right now? 

Micah 00:40:14
It's killing me to say it, but the duck, I'm sorry to say the duck. 

Wish 00:40:18
Oh, my God. I'm a Foie addict. I've got a lot, like, in the freezer right now. Oh, my gosh. 

Micah 00:40:25
Really? 

Wish 00:40:26
Yes. 

Micah 00:40:26
Oh, I forgot to say too. Another thing I've been really into is also uni, which I know you're also into. So good. 

Wish 00:40:32
Not really me. Uni is my brother. I don't really eat uni. Well cooked. Yes. I don't know. I still can't get around the texture. 

Micah 00:40:42
Really. So another question. Do you like oysters? 

Wish 00:40:45
I frigging love oysters so much. 

Micah 00:40:49
So how is uni different to oysters? Aren't they equally sea boogery? I feel it's different. 

Wish 00:41:01
I don't know. I never really get the hang of the texture of uni versus oysters. I don't know. I'm obsessed with oysters, but Uni like here, this is one of the plus, being back in Singapore, you can get, like, air flown from Japan uni all the time, like, premium. Premium. 

Micah 00:41:26
Wow. 

Wish 00:41:27
So it's such a shame because I don't really eat it, but I'm open to it. It doesn't mean that, especially when you're in an awesome Japanese restaurant with a Japanese chef that they offer you, like, uni. I will eat it. But that doesn't mean that I'm just going to have, like, a full feast of uni. I don't know. I have no explanation. 

Micah 00:41:53
Yeah, I can understand. Even I can't take it on in high volume, so I don't know. But I can eat more. I can eat 36 oysters easily, I'm pretty sure. But uni is like a teaspoon will do. So I completely understand. 

Wish 00:42:09
Yeah. I'd rather have caviar than uni. 

Micah 00:42:16
We got into, like, sounding bougie territory. Like all the things we're debating now, it's like Foie. I love Foie than uni, but caviar is better. 

Wish 00:42:26
What's happening with us? We just started with Spam. 

Micah 00:42:30
I love Spam. I can't get Yan around to liking it, but to me, it's so important. I don't know why it's like it's childhood comfort, but it's also it is. Yeah. It's still tasty to me. I know I'm not supposed to like it, but I feel like it's tasty. 

Wish 00:42:49
You know, we do. We because we love it. We're Filipinos. We're like Hawaiians, I think. And we love it. And yeah, I find it very tasty, but most Westerners don't like it. My husband doesn't like it at all. He doesn't get it, like, Yan, but who cares? We love it. I love it very toasty with pandesal. 

Micah 00:43:17
That sounds amazing, right? Do you actually get a lot of Filipino food in Singapore? 

Wish 00:43:24
Yeah, you can. I discovered this Facebook group and there are apparently a lot of these Filipinos here who had like, home cooked meals. They're very much like very professionally packed, very professionally presented, but they cook at home, like in batches, and then they sell it. And then, of course, there is now, like, deliveries that you can just arrange with them for delivery because they're across Singapore. So now I have this access to Puto Bumbong all the time, or Bibingka or Leche flan because there are some of things that I could make them. It's just that it's only me. Luke loves Leche Flan, but other things he would not eat, like, for example, Ensaymada. I could just order. Some of them are way too sweet for him. But Filipino food, he eats them. I still cook like Adobo and he loves Tinola when he's sick. All of these things. He loves Filipino food, but dessert, just a few of the desserts he likes, like coconut macaroons that Yan also likes, I always baked for Yan when we were at work and so there are some things, but yeah, I discovered this big Facebook group where I could find I wanted a Papaitan or I wanted like a Lechon belly. So, yeah, I'm just fortunate to have those in hand now versus the last time I was here. It's kind of hard to find unless you go to this one particular mall called Lucky Plaza. How about there? Do you have more access now? 

Micah 00:45:14
Yeah, I think it's a similar situation here, but a little less on the mains and a little bit more on the desserts. So I've been driving out west just to get specific food because I agree with Luke. It's very hard to get the balance. 

Wish 00:45:32
Right. 

Micah 00:45:32
And I think what happens with Puto is it doesn't taste like home. It just tastes goodness. Rice flour cake. But it's not fluffy, as it should be, or it's too sticky. So it's almost like Goldilocks. You have to find the right mixture, the place that gives you the right mixture. And I feel like if I did find that place, I would just hold on to it. 

Wish 00:45:55
Yeah, totally. Have you ever tried Manila Street? The ice cream from the west, too? 

Micah 00:46:02
Yeah. I love their Keso and their Ube. Oh, so good. 

Wish 00:46:06
So that's the one that I haven't really tried because I discovered them during the pandemic. We were still living in Sydney, but there's no way for me to get them. So, yeah, I did not get to try that Manila St. thing, but their branding even is so good. 

Micah 00:46:27
It reminds me of my uniform in private school. It looks like a skirt. It's not the same colour, but the tartan of the skirt. 

Wish 00:46:36
Right. 

Micah 00:46:36
It's like how many schools in the Philippines have that exact tartan? 

Wish 00:46:36
Yeah, you're right. 

Wish 00:46:42
Oh, my gosh. That was awesome. So how about cocktails? Any good cocktail finds that you had recently? 

Micah 00:46:57
Okay, this is cool. So I've had a few good cocktails made for me by my friends in the Gold Coast, and they're just using their native. So it's interesting because they own a roastery and a coffee shop called Quest up in Burleigh, and they're both foodies. It's ridiculous how those two can dissect a meal and talk about tasting notes and everything. They're very particular. I'm frustrated because I think they're baiting me to come visit them by making me these awesome cocktails and not telling me how it's made. It tastes like Milo, but for adults, it doesn't sound very appealing, but it tastes like childhood as an adult. Right. That's crazy. 

Wish 00:47:43
That's awesome. 

Micah 00:47:44
Yeah. And I'm not going to get it again until I visit them and beg them for the recipe. 

Wish 00:47:49
Yeah, you should visit them again then. So in closing, what's the word or phrase that you can impart to our listeners and you can expand on it? 

Micah 00:48:00
I think mine is, sadly, very straightforward, but I would always say, be brave, be kind, because I think these times you need to be both. I think being kind and not knowing how the world works and how the world can be unkind is leads to cynicism. So one always has to be brave in order to know what the world is and continue to love. And I think we just need more of that in the world right now. 

Wish 00:48:32
Absolutely. Well said. Micah, thank you so much for hanging out with me. It's so nice catching up with you. I hope you can come over to Singapore soon. 

Micah 00:48:42
Me too. I miss you so much. And I'm really glad that we got to talk today, and I'm sure this is our conversation as it always has been. We never spoken differently or did any put on dialogue for this but I'm glad I did get to catch up with you. Even if it's going to be shared with tonnes of people. 

Wish 00:49:09
From this episode, one of the most important words about life is endurance. It is the ability to endure an unpleasant or difficult process or situation without giving way. It's similar to words toleration, stamina, persistence, spunk, continuance, stability. Drew Barrymore, one of the loveliest actresses at present quoted," "If you're going to go through hell, I suggest you come back learning something." There's no such thing as a straightforward path to success to get what you want. Plans are always unmade, promises broken and plans just become shattered. But that doesn't mean that you cannot endure figure it out and trust yourself that you're going to get through it and find a way to achieve that success that you ever deserve.

I hope you love eavesdropping. You should start thinking about your synonyms. What are they? Thank you for listening to Human Thesaurus podcast. Please rate and subscribe and follow me on Twitter or Instagram. Your support means a great deal for me to continue this podcast. Join me again next week for another episode. I'm your host Wish Ronquillo Peacocke. Have a fantastic day and thanks for listening.